Growing sustainability
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Jodi:
Welcome to the Successful Farming Podcast. I'm Jodi Henke. This podcast is brought to you by Nutrien Ag Solutions.
Jodi:
I went online and looked up the term sustainable agriculture, and one of my first hits was from the USDA's National Agricultural Library. They listed 46 different definitions, terms and methods associated with sustainable agricultural systems. Now this list was last updated in 2007, so I can only imagine how many more would be added today. Joining me is Tom Daniel. He is a Director of Sustainable Ag for Nutrien Ag Solutions. Tom, first of all, how do you define sustainability as it pertains to agriculture?
Tom:
So, Jodi, I grew up on the farm. In fact, I still live on the home farm today, and so when you talk about sustainable agriculture, I think about not just sustaining natural resources, but improving natural resources. So for me, my dad told me years and years ago, he said, "Son, we only have one farm and one soil." He said, "If we don't take care of the soil," he said, "then it's not going to take care of you, and the next generation won't have anything to work with."
Tom:
So, my focus when it comes to sustainable agriculture is really focusing on the things of soil, water, and air and with a real emphasis on soil health. Because if we're not focused on soil health, that is where the starting point is not only for a good crop, but also a healthy crop that produces healthy food for us to consume. We need that for our food production for this world.
Jodi:
As you go out and about and talk to farmers, do you think most growers are keeping sustainability in mind and are they embracing this idea?
Tom:
Yeah, Jodi, I think all farmers farm sustainably, or try to within their main style. It's hard for us to put an exact definition of what sustainability should look like all the time, because every grower is different and they have different soil types, they have different resource availabilities. So, sustainability for one farmer may not be the same definition that we would use for another farmer down the road.
Tom:
Each one of them are making really nice environmental choices for the farm situations they are dealing with, but not in all cases do they all meet a checkbox on what we would consider ultimate sustainability, right? So, I believe all growers are good stewards of the land. You hear that comment all the time, but I truly believe that. Why would we as a farm group want to abuse the very resource that's going to help us make a living?
Tom:
In most cases, most of our family farms have legacies. They want to leave a legacy to that next generation, and so the idea of abusing a resource really doesn't even fit into the farmer vernacular today. We're more focused on how do we make this resource of soil, water and air better, not how are we just trying to produce a crop off of it? We want to keep making it a better resource.
Jodi:
You mentioned different soils and different climates and all that sort of thing. When you talk about sustainable crop protection practices, what are some of the things that you focus on, maybe no matter where they are?
Tom:
Well, the big thing that you'll hear discussed today is around tillage. How can we reduce the amount of times we're disturbing the soil? The conversation around reduced tillage, no tillage, all of those things are positive and ways of protecting moisture in the soil. Even out west where we have droughts now, the tillage just removes moisture out of the soil. So, everything that we can do around tillage is a big piece.
Tom:
You hear a lot of discussions around cover crops, which have fits in certain parts of the country, and parts of the country they don't. But we hear how do cover crops increase soil health? How do they feed the biome in the soil? Are we using the right products? Whether it be synthetic fertilizers, organic fertilizers, crop protection products, are we making the right choices that are increasing the microbiology in the soil or helping us grow a healthier soil?
Tom:
So all of those things are the things that we focus on today, and a lot of people really question a company like Nutrien. We're a big fertilizer company. In fact, we're one of the largest input suppliers in the world. Always the question is why would you promote less? Well, the idea is not just to promote less, but it's to make what we're using more efficient, and to make sure that the crop in the field that we're applying fertilizers or crop protection products to, that those products stay in the field that they're being applied to and are being used by the crop they're being applied to.
Tom:
We don't want those things to show up in the rivers or the lakes or anywhere else, we want to make sure that the grower's investment stays with the crop he's trying to produce, and we're maximizing that for production. So, those are kind of the focuses that we're working with today.
Jodi:
Well, beyond the inputs of fertilizers, do you work with farmers, not only no-till and cover crops, but other conservation measures such as prairie strips, for example, where you're putting prairie plants in narrow strips and fields, are you also involved in that?
Tom:
As an input supplier, we're pretty well engaged with our growers on any of their practices that they're trying to establish. So it could be buffer zones, as you said, prairie strips, all of those different things. If a grower's engaged in and we're the trusted advisor for that acre, then we more than likely are engaged in that process and learning process.
Tom:
Sometimes we're learning at the same times our growers are learning about those processes, because they're new in some cases. We depend on industry experts also like the USDA and the NRCS help us through those processes and making sure that the growers are engaged the right way in whatever process they're trying to use. We want to make sure that they're meeting their outcome of whatever practice change you're making on the farm.
Jodi:
Tom, what new technologies are evolving to help manage and monitor not only the crops and their yields, but also the environment?
Tom:
There are so many things that are new technologies that seem to be just coming out almost on a weekly basis, new things we look at. I think one of the biggest impacts that we've had is around fertilizer management on the farm, especially around nitrogen. Nitrogen is one of those products that we have to have when it comes to producing corn or those crops that are not nitrogen-loving. So we need that nitrogen fertilizer, but how do we manage that and making sure that we're only applying the necessary amounts to the farm?
Tom:
So delivery systems around technology, variable rate technology, and how we can apply more nitrogen in areas of the field that need it and less in areas of the field that have lower production capabilities, those are all key parts of managing fertilizer rates. Variable rate technology years ago was more about applying more fertilizer in poor areas of the field and less fertilizer in richer areas of the field with some type of idea around balancing fertilizer through all the different soil types in the farm.
Tom:
We know today that each part of the farm, each management zone in the farm does not have the same capacity as the one next to it. So when we talk about variable rate today, we're actually talking about putting the input in an area where it has the biggest opportunity for return on investment and reducing the amount of inputs that we put on areas that don't have the same opportunity for production.
Tom:
So things like Y-Drops for nitrogen applications, two by twos, looking at variable rate technologies, all of those things are just key components. Not even getting into the fact that we have so much remote sensing opportunities today from satellite imagery, drone imagery, all of those things that we can determine how the crops growing in the field and actually look at ways to diagnose problems and look for in-season solutions to fix those problems.
Jodi:
Soil testing of course is a huge part of that as well.
Tom:
Soil testing is the starting point. I mean, without a soil test, how do you know what your resource has and what you can actually manage? Soil testing is important, but not only soil testing, but tissue sampling that we do in-season. A lot of people question, well, if I know it's in the soil, why do I need to do a tissue sample? Just because you've identified that you have good phosphate levels and potassium levels in soil doesn't mean that the plant has the capacity to take it up. There can be weather conditions or multiple reasons that you may have deficiencies showing up in the plant.
Tom:
So to maximize your overall productivity, we want to make sure we're at all times using some type of tissue sampling or some type of in-season monitoring that allows us to address those deficiencies before they take yield away from us.
Jodi:
Carbon is kind of the big buzzword in agriculture right now, and there are a lot of questions surrounding it such as how it's measured, who pays for the carbon credits, how the farmers will be paid. First off, let's talk about some agronomic practices that you recommend to help capture that carbon.
Tom:
Really the two main practices you hear most of the discussion around is, one, using cover crops in the off-planting season. Once the cash crop's removed, keeping something growing and green on that acre 365 days a year, and then we talk about no-till on the following planted crop behind the cover crop. The purpose of the no-till's not actually to sequester carbon, it's to protect the carbon you've sequestered with the green growing crops.
Tom:
So those are the two main components that you'll hear the most about, but there are other opportunities too around rotational changes that you can make in the farm. We have some growers out in the Upper Midwest that are looking at introducing some more permanent type crops in their rotation like alfalfa. All of those things can lead to higher levels of sequestered carbon and opportunities for our grower to create a revenue stream off of that.
Jodi:
How do you create a revenue stream? I mean, how is carbon measured and how does a producer know what he needs to add to it? Soils are so different from even one part of a field to the next, you may have great levels of carbon in one corner and none in another.
Tom:
That is one of the biggest problems you have in the carbon markets today. So there are parts of the country, when you hear all of the, as you said, the buzzword around carbon, growers get excited about it from one coast to the other and want to participate, right? But in truth, not all geographies are going to be able to soil sequester carbon. There are geographies that have dry seasons that don't allow them to plant cover crops or use cover crops, because they have to preserve water, and there's areas of the country that just do not have the right climate. The heat is intensive or tillage is an issue, they have to use some type of tillage in their farming operation. Tillage has a tendency ... well, it does destroy sequestered carbon releasing it into the air.
Tom:
So, we measure carbon by CO2 tonnage. You'll see everybody talking about getting paid by the ton on sequestered carbon, the question is how much carbon does my particular farm sequester? There are models that are used today that have been approved that measure carbon based upon the farmer practices the farmer has introduced. So if he introduces no-till and introduces cover crop, the model gives us an indication just how much carbon can be sequestered in a yearly cycle with those types of changes.
Tom:
Are they always accurate? We try to truth them with soil sampling. So going out and taking a soil sample, which is not your traditional soil sample. Most growers think a soil sample is taking a six inch core and taking X number within a grid sample. In a true carbon test, we're going to take a 12 inch core and it's two inches in diameter. So, we're taking a lot of soil out of the field and we're looking at soil organic carbon through a combustion test, and we're also doing a density test of the soil to determine the soil's capacity to hold carbon.
Tom:
So there's a lot of unique issues around carbon that have to be addressed, and really we have to look at the economics of carbon. At the price today, $15 to $20 a ton that you hear mentioned around the marketplace, that, for one, doesn't cover the cost of the farmer practice change of let's say cover crops, and it definitely doesn't cover the cost of soil sampling that we're using to determine if the models are accurate or not.
Tom:
So, there are some economics that still have to be figured out around this carbon market. Do I believe they will be? Yes, I believe over time they will be figured out, but I think for today, we're more in a learning mode about carbon. So I'm one of these guys that tells growers in general be cautious, and just for now, let's learn through this process together, and then when the market's right, everyone will be ready to jump in.
Jodi:
Would you encourage them to start if they haven't already engaging in practices or implementing practices that would increase their carbon, even if we don't know all the answers yet?
Tom:
Well, so if I'm going to add no-till or cover cropping and just to gain a revenue off carbon payments, then I'm doing it for the wrong reason. The economics aren't there for the revenue that's going to be generated for that. If I'm implementing no-till or cover crop today, I'm implementing those things for soil health reasons and the reason for increasing productivity down the line, right?
Tom:
The good thing about carbon revenues, we know that no-till or cover crops, for instance, don't give an immediate payback to the grower, it usually takes three to five years of those practices to be implemented before a grower sees a really return on investment in higher yield and better quality crop production. So, the idea around the carbon markets is, hey, if I can get a payment early and help pay for the cost of this, I want to participate.
Tom:
Now, here's the one thing we have to be aware of. There's a thing called additionality, and I'm sure you've heard that term before. If a grower today adds a new practice of cover crop or no-till on the farm, then that farm will be limited on future opportunities to be registered. So a grower that's been doing cover crops and no-till for five to 10 years, in some cases will not be eligible to participate in certain carbon markets.
Tom:
So when a grower makes a decision that he's going to implement these practices, and if he's doing it for soil health and the right reasons, he needs to also understand the rules and regulations today and how the registries around carbon view additionality. He needs to make a decision if he should be participating in a carbon market now, or is he going to be able to participate in a future carbon market that gives him the opportunity to look back and take credit for historical changes on the farm? Those are all questions that need to be answered, and the grower really needs to be engaged with a trusted crop advisor that can give him some advice around some of those projects.
Jodi:
Now, I understand you guys are working with some partners regarding carbon, with Colorado State University and the Ecosystem Services Market Consortium. What are those partnerships all about?
Tom:
Well, Colorado State is one of the leading universities around measuring and working with carbon. They've been in this industry a long time from the support side of academia. In fact, some of the models we're using today actually came out of Colorado State. So we are working very closely with them, we're looking at different projects and different measurement opportunities on how we can help improve some of the models that we're working with today.
Tom:
Also, we're working with Ecosystem Service Market. That group is a group that has been put together to develop a voluntary market where growers can actually enroll in that market and have multiple buyers that the ESMC has brought together to help be purchasers of the carbon that's being generated off the farm.
Tom:
ESMC, Nutrien has been a member of that. In fact, we're one of the founding members of ESMC, along with many other industry groups. I think there's over 70 different members today that are actually looking to eventually be able to purchase carbon offsets through ESMC. Their plan is in the very near future to actually open that market up and give growers an opportunity to market, validate and verify credits.
Jodi:
Now it isn't just farmers and universities and companies like Nutrien, we also need collaboration from government and regulatory agencies to reach the sustainability goals. Are you seeing positive movement in this area?
Tom:
Well, Jodi, one of the things that always concerns me and concerns farmers too is regulation, and those type of things from the government. I always look at it this way. Change comes either by a stick or a carrot, and I always prefer a carrot. So regulations, one of those things we don't look forward to, but when it comes to carbon markets in general, I think there needs to be some rule setting where we understand exactly what's acceptable, what's not acceptable, and growers have a target that they can shoot for and know what they're doing is bringing value.
Tom:
So remember, when we talk about carbon, we're talking about sequestering CO2 out of the atmosphere. So, we're looking for climate change, and how can we make positive environmental changes? It is about growers getting paid for the activity that they're doing, but it's also to make sure that we're using science-based technologies to determine whether or not we're doing what we say we're doing.
Tom:
So to me, the involvement of the USDA and those type of organizations can give structure to these programs, and then these multiple different buyers for carbon today can participate with confidence and know that the products they're purchasing as offsets are real. So that to me is a key component, but I don't want, and I will tell you that most every farmer would tell you this, I don't want someone taking away my freedom to be able to farm in the way I need to.
Tom:
As I said earlier in our discussion, farms are different. Every farmer has different capabilities, different technology opportunities, his farm soils are different and his climate's different. We can't set rules that fit everyone, not one size fits all. So, freedom to farm to me is a key component of anything we do around these regulations or markets.
Jodi:
Thank you Tom Daniel for being my guest today, to Nutrien Ag Solutions for sponsoring the podcast, and thank you for listening. For Successful Farming, I'm Jodi Henke.