Amazing grasslands
Subscribe to the Successful Farming Podcast:
Joe Dickie:
Let's start with the ranch itself. So talk about the history of the ranch here and how you guys went from probably less than full time to working a little bit more on the ranch.
Bruce:
By trade, Joyce and I are both bankers, but about 32 years ago we made a decision to buy a quarter of ground and probably run 15, 20 steers on that ground to get us away from, at least for me anyway, to get myself away from my desk and outdoors, which is really where my heart is. So that's how we started. Basically we had a quarter ground that had an old fence, so we tore it all out and built a corral system to load and unload cattle and to hold them in a pasture. That's where we started. Since that time, we've expanded our ranching operation into Edmunds and McPherson County. We now have a pasture located from where we sit today, which is south of Hosmer, South Dakota, up to the North Dakota border, to be honest. So we've spent the last 30 years plus pounding in a lot of fence posts, building some corrals.
Bruce:
We're now running a cow herd at about 350 cow/calf pair supported with about 17, 18 Angus/Simmental cross bulls. We do some back grounding as we pull those calves in the fall. We also sell directly to the market. So we do some of both. So basically when we started the ranching operation, we probably spent 5% to 10% of our time related to the ranch, the other 90 plus percent of the time at the bank, which was really our day job. Since that time, that's evolved quite a bit the other direction. Maybe at times Joyce and I have both been involved at the ranch doing work or ranch-related activities. But a lot of the time when Joyce maybe has been involved, I've been able to stay at the bank. And maybe just the opposite as I've been able to get out to do some of the ranch work, Joyce has been able to take care of the bank, which is a huge deal.
Bruce:
So it's been a joint effort. Now we probably spend, I wouldn't say 50% of our time, but a whole lot more of our time related to the ranch and the cattle side of things. At least as I get older, I won't speak for Joyce, but as I get older, I rely more and more on younger legs, which is our son, Joel, and our real ranch manager, who is Bill Johnson, both here in Hosmer. They take care of a lot of the work where my feet don't carry me anymore, but it's been one of the most enjoyable things I've done outside of my family and my day job also. So it's been a learning experience. I think from my perspective, Joyce and I do not come from a ranching or a farming background whatsoever.
Bruce:
I guess I would be a fourth generation banker. Joyce has been a banker 40 plus years. So since we've known each other, we've always worked in the same facility in earlier days in Aberdeen, South Dakota for about 10 years, but the last 34 years here in Hosmer. So we are truly a partner in life, a partner in business. And I've said this before, and I'm proud of it, and I'm going to say it on today, Joyce is also my best friend and always has been. It makes life really good for me. So I'm a blessed individual to be able to be outdoors and to be able to run our ranch, or how we run our ranch together is maybe not the same as others do, but we do believe in conservation and we do believe in doing the best job we can, even though our backgrounds probably really relate more to banking.
Joe:
Conservation wise, you guys have made some changes on the ground here. I know that we were on a pasture that two years ago was cropland, right?
Bruce:
That's true.
Joe:
So talk about transitioning back to grassland. First of all, the change that you've seen and also why that's important to you and why that might be important to others.
Bruce:
Well, like I said earlier, we started with 160 acres of grass, but as we expanded our ranch, we purchased some acres that involved some crop acres as well as grass acres. We tried to make the purchases probably more towards grass than crop because we do not farm ourself. So in the process, we've had a neighbor that is a really good farmer that does a really good job in what he does, so we've leased some of those acres to him, but as a whole, over the last 20 plus years, we've converted a lot of acres away from crop into grasslands, with the help of US Fish and Wildlife. We worked with Ducks Unlimited and soil conservation and others to get that accomplished.
Bruce:
One of the main individuals we dealt with over the years was Al Olson from US Fish and Wildlife. I think 25 years ago, I met Al and he guided us through the early process, but we've utilized many others to help us make good decisions. And we did transition a lot of crop acres into grass. That really was for many reasons, a lot of it to do with conservation, but a lot of it to do with the ranching side and our belief that grasslands are not only good from the ranching side, but they're good for outdoor interest.
Bruce:
They're also good for, I think, diversity and economies and all the rest that goes with living where we live. So the most recent project we've done on our own is we converted about 21 acres of crop land that's near our second location where we do our calving, from crop land. It was soybeans with a different operator to a grasslands. We did it on our own. We actually did it with not a real sophisticated method, but I think we had a good technique and a good grass base to get it to work.
Bruce:
Two years later now we turned our cattle into that grass for the first time and hopefully get some weed control from the cattle as well as also from our efforts to make that viable grass units. So we've done a lot of those projects. We also worked with Chad and others to convert about 214 acres into a grassland and a wetland easement program. We seeded back about 100 acres of crop land and reseeded some acres that were in alfalfa, some old alfalfa and going to convert that into another grass unit.
Bruce:
So we believe in good guidance, which we've always received from all the people that support us in our activities. So it's been a transition process, but we still do keep some crop acres. We have some just to the east of us right now. We'll use that in the fall to take cattle from grass into those corn stocks or residue, soybeans, whatever it might be. We can utilize that forage along with our ranching and our grassland operation. So it's a multiuse scenario. We try and capitalize where we can on what's here.
Joe:
Changes that you've seen since you are transitioning. I know that we were out there and there were birds singing and we saw duck eggs and deer running out of there. Have you noticed an increase in wildlife? I mean, obviously you can just assume that healthy grasslands means healthy wildlife, right?
Bruce:
That's true.
Joe:
So talk about that. And also why that's important to you both as a rancher and as a sportsman, right?
Bruce:
I think healthy grasslands makes for a healthy ecosystem, especially as it relates to wildlife, and that isn't just deer and pheasants and all the things that probably most people would associate with. I think it also means good for songbirds and for other activity. I think the transition from cropland into some of these grasslands has really helped support that. And myself, Joyce, Joel, our son, Kayla, all the rest really enjoy the outdoors, maybe myself as much as anybody. But I think it's true across our family.
Bruce:
So we have really noticed over the years in doing this that the wildlife really has been much more sustained in these locations than maybe some of our other locations that were there previous. In the mornings, my hearing isn't so good anymore after all these years and shooting too many guns, but I can sit out in those areas, especially early morning, and hear all kinds of songbirds singing and all kinds of activity. You can see it, you can hear it, and I think you can live it. Outside of my family, that's one of my favorite interests. So I'm very thankful we've done what we've done.
Joe:
Tell me about the landscape here. Obviously it's flat, you've got some water out here. You've got a drought. There's a lot of water topics that we could talk about both the ponds that you have here and then your land retaining water, right, especially on a year like this. So talk about water a little bit, and then describe the landscape here.
Bruce:
Where we live is probably in a Prairie pothole region. That's how I would view it anyway. We live in a rolling area, some hills, but more rolling. As a result, there are potholes too. So we do, in wetter years, hold a lot of water in this country, but in drier years, such as this year, we are in a severe drought area, at least in my opinion. I think it shows that on the map too, as far as South Dakota goes. So what happens, I think, is you will lose water, but you can also retain some water with having these grasslands in place.
Bruce:
And then even if you lose the water, you can gain some additional habitat and some additional grasslands, and some areas can do develop themselves, which I think is really important to the ecosystem and the future of those areas, going back into potholes or holding water or whatever the situation may be. I think that shows in, especially in a year like this year, where you get to some of these areas where you get the rolling and we still have water holes that have water, and we have habitat for ducks and geese.
Bruce:
Some of that water could even support livestock if it needed to, at least to a degree. So I think it's really important to manage. Sometimes you have to stockpile a little bit to get all that to work, but I think good management practices also go right back into good conservation practices, and that's what we try to accomplish.
Joe:
You have some tanks out here. Did you have to run some water line out here?
Bruce:
Yep.
Joe:
And then was that part of the equip?
Bruce:
Yeah, what we have here is we have a web water system. But basically when we started the ranching operation, there was no web water. Web water is a rural water system that supports our area here, which came later than when we started. So we do have some shallow water in some of our locations. So we've done some of that with pipeline and with shallow water and tanks. When web water came to our area, we hooked onto that into most of our locations where we do have livestock and that's helped sustain some of the lack of water when we can't utilize it. But we do use dugouts. We use some natural water scenarios.
Bruce:
We use pipelines to move water ourselves, and then we use web water to support all those systems if we can. It's a dependable source of water. It's maybe not always the cheapest source of water or the cheapest way to do it. But we use a combination of both, I think a lot like how we manage this ranch. We have a diversity of ways to get it done. And then we have sometimes where even the best, what we can do, doesn't allow for us to maintain our cattle all year round and we do have to move them. But that's one of the main reasons for stockpiling and keeping things in good shape so you can do that.
Joe:
How do you handle it, your rotations out here? I mean, how long do you sit on the pasture and how long do you rest them?
Bruce:
As far as our grazing practices, there are more structured grazing processes than what we use. I think there are some cross fencing in units and some structures that allow for certain days, certain amount of acres and so forth. We do a lot of cross fencing ourselves, and we do utilize pastures in the same type concept. But what we've done maybe a little different is we have a little more flexible approach, I think, and maybe a little less structured than some, whereas we will use some grass acres fairly hard at certain times of the year.
Bruce:
We may not use any grass for certain times of the year. We have learned over the years, I think, where not all grass is the same, especially when you're going from here to the North Dakota border. Some of it more native, some of it more warm season, cool season, depending on where we have our cattle. So we learned over the 32 years of how we can best use probably, in our opinion anyway, the acres we have. So we have lots of cross fencing. We do rotate our cattle. There'll be times where we use acres more and then maybe for a year don't use them at all.
Bruce:
So we have kind of our own system that we learned over time and it seems to treat us well. But I think we learn every year a little more about it, especially now this year when you get into a drought year. Last year, the road that we went to town on was underwater because the lakes on both sides were high. This year both those lakes are dry. So I just think every year is a new year and especially where we live and our unstructured, maybe more flexible system, I think, is supportive of what we've done and it works well for us.
Joe:
Let's talk about crops. You said you have some corn. Are you guys doing no-till, any cover, anything like that?
Bruce:
The truth is we don't farm. Our farm acres are leased to a neighbor just a couple miles to the east of us. He has never really owned any livestock and we've never done any farming. So what we've done is in the past is we've leased some of his grass acres, because he didn't have livestock. And then he farms what acres we don't have in programs or we don't utilize for grasslands. And then most of those acres are just located to the east of us, and the residue from either the corn or the soybeans or whatever crop he raises will support our cow herd later fall when the harvest is complete. We'll bring all our cows back to this location. We obviously have hay and feed here as well as we do use just corn, but we'll get those cattle out in that residue and then utilize our grass and that residue to support hopefully, if weather allows, our cow herd for usually anywhere from a two week to a six week period, and it really helps cut the cost.
Joe:
I am interested in the banking side of things, because we've never sat down with bankers. We always hear the story of that farmer or rancher going to the bank and trying to convince them that they need money for something. And I think some of the challenges in the past have been doing cover crops. I think it's become more the norm now. So maybe it's not as much of a challenge as a banker, but can you talk about banking and farmers and ranchers and how that all works together? Obviously you work with a lot of farmers and ranchers.
Bruce:
Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, both Joyce and I are both bankers and have been for 40 plus years. Basically banking is our day job. That's what we do more hours probably than even on the ranch side, both important. But as far as the bank is concerned, Farmer's State Bank is located in Hosmer. We're an independent bank. Joyce and I own the bank ourselves and have for a period of time now. Basically our charter started in October of 1919. So the bank has been there a long time.
Bruce:
I would be a fourth generation banker, or our children who are both in banking also would be fifth generation. So we've been there a long time. We are the smallest bank in South Dakota. We don't have any branches. And like I said earlier, we're independent. But I think when this 32 years ago or whatever it's been now where we decided to buy a quarter of land and buy some steers and start the ranching side of things, I think has also really helped at least myself and I, and I believe Joyce the same. I'll let her speak on her own.
Bruce:
But I think it's really helped us understand you get your shoes in the same shoes as the people that are walking in the front door doing some of the same things. We don't farm necessarily our acres, but we get out on those acres and you just get a firsthand look at what our customers are dealing with day to day. I think it's really helped our bank probably have a closer relationship with our borrowing base and our customer base actually in total, at least it has for me. I think it's been a real good thing. This is pretty much how I dress when I go to the bank each day too. I haven't had a suit coat or tie on for the last 34 years. I don't have the best to feed anymore. So I might even have my tennis shoes on when I go to the bank.
Bruce:
But you know, when the people walk in the front door of our bank, most of those customers aren't wearing suits and ties. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because there is absolutely not, but that's not how they come in. Every now and then, even though you might manage the bank, we clean up a little bit of cow manure that might fall off of people's boots and that's fine. It's who our customer base is. We're obviously a very small community in Hosmer of 150 people give or take. and that's how we operate our bank. But I think the ranching and the banking together has, I think, done a lot of good things, at least for my own sake in knowing how people might come in and make their requests and run their operations. Even though each operation is done completely different and managed the way it needs to be, I think it's made us a better bank.
Joe:
Joyce, do you want to talk about family, grandkids, raising kids on a ranch?
Joyce:
We have two children, Joel, who is 40, and Kayla who is 33, and we have five grandchildren ages 14 to five. We have our two children and our five grandchildren living in Hosmer. We get to see them often, which I love. I know some families aren't as lucky. They live thousands of miles away from each other, but I'm loving it. Have a good life. The grandchildren love being out here. They're free to run around. They love it. They love being outdoors.
Bruce:
We do spoil them a little bit and they do have a lot of acres to roam, and they'll walk into those trees and maybe get ticks on them. We got to pick them off at night, but they love having a little bit of freedom and they love the calves in the spring of the year. Right, Joyce?
Joyce:
Yes, they do, and they love the calves.
Bruce:
Yep. We usually have a bottle calf or two maybe from a set of twins or whatever, and they just love being around them. So it's funny how that naturally happens.
Joyce:
And even with the grandkids, they love coming up to the bank. It's small enough they can run around. I don't know if you'd be able to do that in a big city bank, but it's fun to come in because both of our children are there. So they love that too.
Joe:
What one thing have you done that has been most important to the success of your operation, if you were to say one thing?
Bruce:
I think one of the things that we've done that probably has led to the success of our operation is we started small and we started very simple. And even though that was not in our backgrounds, we took small steps along the way. But I think one of the most important things that's happened, especially after we started expanding a little bit and converting some acres and doing those things was getting good guidance, good information and good support from the outside, such as from soil conservation to US Fish and Wildlife. We've worked with Ducks Unlimited programs.
Bruce:
We've been really fortunate to meet some really good people and get some really good guidance. And then that's helped us then convert to what we have today and to grow over a period of time. I think if we would've been on our own and would've had to start the way we did, and if we had expanded to where we are now, even though we're not big, but we're bigger than where we started, without that guidance and without that support, we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are today.
Joe:
Can you recall a moment or a time when the light bulb went on for you to change the way you were grazing?
Bruce:
I think from the grazing aspect, I think what's happened is we've evolved over time. I think when we first started, we had bigger pastures and maybe not as diverse locations and grasslands as we have today. So I think as we've gone forward over time, we've again stayed somewhat flexible. We've made some mistakes probably where we started compared to maybe where we are today. We still are making some mistakes and we're still learning. So I don't know if it's been any one thing that's really helped us, but I think staying flexible in our approach and still staying structured in how we manage and run our operation has been very important.
Bruce:
And then I think using somewhat of a stockpiling method maybe where we've conserved some acres, been able to probably even reduce our herd to allow that to happen probably in the last five years or so, I think is one of the most important things we've done. At one point we ran about 600 cows over the same acres we're running now. We did have some leased acres, but I think the reduction in that cow herd to 350 head or thereabouts where we are today, has allowed us to operate on our own unit, to also stay conservative in how we use that unit. And then as we've learned over the last 30 years, how to move those cattle and use acres accordingly has probably helped us the most.
Joe:
What's the big surprise when you go from the way you formally grazed to where you're at now?
Bruce:
I think one of the biggest differences from where we started was we used our acres probably not very efficiently. So as we've gone into our current situation, I think what's really happening and what's probably as best is we get to a year like this year where it's drought related. We're able to have some pastures that have been untouched, even though we're in drought and we have short grass and short supplies of grass, we still have some acres we haven't utilized and may or may not even use this entire year, even in a drought year.
Bruce:
I think that's allowed for grasses to diversify, stay healthy. We have some growth out there, even though it's very short and not what you'd hope for in a dry year. But I think the most important thing is we have acres available and we can use some acres harder in places where we know we can manage it that way, but then we can also leave some acres untouched or at least don't utilize the acres as hard. Because hopefully there's another spring next year and another year to operate on and we need those same grass lines and those same acres to support our herd, may it be larger or smaller in the future. Maybe weather will dictate some of that. But I think that's been the most important thing.
Joe:
What would you say is the biggest misconception people have who are not managing their grazing system for resiliency and soil health?
Bruce:
In our case, we do what we do, and we certainly are not the best at what we do. It just works very well for our operation. But I think if you look around and if you see some other acres, not that they're managed poorly or not managed efficiently, but if you look around, you can see where maybe the diversity and maybe some of the different varieties of grass maybe don't support the unit like it maybe once could or should. I just think taking that conservative stockpiling, flexible process has supported us well.
Bruce:
And not that other operations are any different, because there are some extremely well managed operations all around us and some very good operators. I've said for many years maybe I'm not a rancher. I think some of the true ranchers are the people that are around us. But I think if you manage what you have and if you learn over time, you can do a good job in conservation, as well as managing your operation.
Joe:
Is there something you'd still like to do that you haven't done yet to improve your soil health or grazing system?
Bruce:
Yeah, I think the process of improving and the process of conservation and improving what you have is ongoing. I think it's like life. I don't think you ever, at least I hope I never stop learning. I think there's always new techniques and different ideas out there that can help you. So I think it's an ongoing process. I told my kids I'm going to live to be 142. So if that's true and I'm 64, I got a long ways to go and I'll bet you if that were true, I'd probably be learning every day of my life until I got to be 142.
Bruce:
So I think that's really what's important. I think you have to look where your efficiencies are, look where your benefit will come from to your operation as well as to the outdoor interest as well as everything else, and you keep learning, you keep adjusting. That's why I think that flexible system is good for us and it's really helped us.
Joe:
What advice do you have for someone who is considering changing their grazing system to one that's better for building soil health?
Bruce:
You know, if I could give somebody some advice for the future, I don't know that I'd be the one to do it, but what I would say to anybody is go to the experts. Go to the people that live and work with soil conservation and outdoor conservation and grassland conservation, and easements and water and all those things, because those people are out there. They're in our counties, they're in our cities, they're in South Dakota. So if I had to give anybody advice, it wouldn't come from me. I think I would send them to the people that can best help them. And then if somebody would ask for any advice, I'd tell them what I know, which is very little.
Bruce:
But I just think there's a great network of people out there that support conservation and wildlife and all these things we're talking about. I think those phone calls are not far away and they're easy to get to. There are a lot of really, really good people out there and they're common sense, they're easy to talk to, they're easy to be around. They're not afraid to come out and spend some time on your land or spend some time with you. So I think it's a great resource and I think that would be my advice.
Joe:
When you walk across your grasslands, what do you look for as an indicator of healthy grasslands and healthy soil?
Bruce:
Well, I think some of the indicators of healthy grasslands vary a lot because I think soil types vary a lot. Even if you convert cropland into grasslands or if you just have natural grasslands, they aren't all growing and sustained on the same type soil. So I think getting out there and getting your shoes wet, dirty, spending some time out there looking at what you have, I think gives you the best indication of the health of the soil as well as the health of the grasslands themself.
Bruce:
And I think if you can sit down in a one-yard circle or just look at the different grasses that are there, I today cannot even identify all the different grasses that are out there, but you can see the diversity in what's growing. You can see June grass and you can see alfalfa and you can see some weeds. You can see some other things out there that are all growing. And I think a sign of healthy soil and a healthy grassland is that diversity of plants and what it can support, even though soil types aren't the same.
Joe:
What change have you made that you had first thought wouldn't work?
Bruce:
I think some of the change that we made over the last 32 years came from experience and time. Honestly, when we first started grazing, we just had a pasture. We put cattle out there and hoped for the best. That's probably how we started, because we didn't have a lot of knowledge, a lot of background, and you have to learn somehow. But I think, again, time and paying attention to what's happening out in these grasslands and out on these managed areas and having some rotation and having some structure in what you do with pastures, but also staying flexible as change occurs, may it be from mother nature or otherwise, I think ensures your future.
Joe:
What are the signs that your land is resilient and what does resiliency mean to you? And this is a great year for that question.
Bruce:
I think, again, going back to looking at your land, a year ago in our area, we had adequate water. We had good growing conditions. It was probably not perfect, probably not all favorable at all times of the year, but we had really good growing conditions. So this year, transitioning from a year where there was good growth, good crops, all that, to having a fall last year that got fairly dry to having a winter last year that had some snow early, but really no snow cover for the most of the winter and a very mild winter at the same time. And then coming into a spring where it got very dry and has been dry ever since, we got 30, 40 hundredths of rain here in the last couple of days.
Bruce:
That's the first rain of any consequence we've had for a long time. So I think when you miss that moisture and it's not there, especially in the earlier growing season, to me, which is kind of May/June timeframe, if you manage what you have effectively, you can have some grass that still stays green, even when a lot of grass is turning brown. I think you can have some growth, even though it's not what you hope for or would like in a good growing year, but you can sustain some acres and you can sustain some livestock in periods of time where otherwise, if it's not managed that way, I think can turn around and really hurt you.
Bruce:
If you look at our landscape now, were dry. So I think all those things are important. I don't think there's any magic in how you can do it or what you do. I just think you have to pay close attention to your pastures. You have to know your soil conditions. You have to know what grows and what doesn't grow. I think you have to be flexible in your approach and it'll work.
Joe:
There are five important R words, R grazing management words, important to resilient range lands. Which of the five do you relate to most and why? They are rotate, rest, recover, rate and roots. What's the most important, do you think, for your operation?
Bruce:
Well, I think of all the five Rs that there are to consider when you look at the grasslands, it's hard to pick one. I think there's a component in all of them that are important, if it is rotation or resting or recover or roots. But if I had to pick one, I think the most important to me would be being able to rest a certain amount of acres and then probably as a result of that rest, you can have recovery and you can have roots and then you can rotate. So I know that's not answering the question like I was asked, but I really believe that's how it works. So if I had to pick one, that would be it. But I think one leads to the other four Rs. And I think when it comes to end of the day, they're all important, and I think that's what ensures good grasslands.
Joe:
Explain realty specialists.
Chad:
What I do is I work with landowners like Bruce, who are interested in conservation easements and help put conservation easements on the ground. I met Bruce because he's worked with the Fish and Wildlife service for a long time, I think longer than I've been around, I know that. I was fortunate enough to get to work with him on easements at McPherson and Edmunds County. It's been a lot of fun being able to come around the ground and seeing what Bruce is doing, seeing the restorations he's got going on, seeing land that was cropland that is now grass. It's one of the most rewarding parts of my job. It is the most rewarding part of my job.
Joe:
Why is it important to you what he's doing, both for him as a rancher and then also for others, even like people downstream, because we're talking water quality too?
Chad:
I mean, there's so many reasons that it's important to do what Bruce is doing. It's hard to even begin to know where to start. It's important for Bruce because it's helping his operation. It's helping the cattle in his operation. It's important for ducks because it's keeping grass in the landscape. It's important for the American people because it's keeping a natural resource out here.
Chad:
I mean, Bruce and I were talking about this. The native Prairie out here, the grasslands of the Great Plains, it's like the Rocky Mountains of the middle of the country or the ocean. It's a natural resource that's going away. And if it isn't for people like Bruce that are out here preserving it, it's going to be gone. It helps in just endless opportunities from cleaning up watersheds to having these wetlands that are holding flood waters and preventing flooding events we see downstream to helping sequester carbon for clean air. I mean, you could just go on and on. For wildlife, for songbirds, for pollinators, the list is nearly never ending of the benefits.
Chad:
It's people like Bruce and Joyce that's the reason we're here. And without conservation minded people like Bruce and Joyce, I dare not to guess what this world would look like. It's a huge benefit, like Bruce was saying, to Hosmer, but also to the counties, to the state, to the whole nation really. This grassland easement program that Bruce and Joyce have looked into and done, it's supported by waterfowl. And this area is hugely important, the waterfowl. It's the heart of the Prairie pothole region. Bruce was talking about the Prairie potholes that are out here. And specifically this area, our data has shown this area can support more than 100 pairs of nesting waterfowl per square mile. So not only is it the Prairie pothole region, but it's like the heart of the art of the Prairie pothole region, and the duck factory of North America.